Warn the Cherokee at Fort Loudoun, Don't attack.
Warn the Cherokee not to attack the French allied Indians? That's not going to happen.
Who's giving that warning?
Governor William Denny of Pennsylvania.
He writes to the commanding officer
of Fort Loudoun Winchester VA.
That's Colonel George Washington.
But he's not there.
He won't be at the Fort until April 2, 1758 after fully recovering from his dysentery he's had since August 1757.
So the letter is forwarded
to the current commanding officer
of Fort Loudoun.
That happens to be Lt Thomas Bullitt.
We always have to fit in a BY THE WAY comment.
By the way, this Lt Bullitt?
He goes on to start The Homestead
in Hot Springs VA in 1766.
The Homestead, has of course,
gone through many changes and additions since then.
Bullitt claimed
the Promised Land
of Lt Gov Dinwiddie's Proclamation of 1754
which led to this.
That promised land was only meant for those who served in 1754, not for any of those who fought later.
Not even for those who fought in Braddock's Defeat of 9 July 1755 either.
This is such an important distinction that we believe Colonel George Washington's first portrait in 1772 shows him wearing red breeches that were worn in 1754, not the blue ones which came later in late 1755.
Okay that's too many BY THE WAYS.
Back to 25 March 1758.
A mere Lieutenant gets a copy of this letter from a Governor because he happens to be presiding at the center of a storm.
That storm?
It's the 400 Cherokee sitting right now at Winchester VA.
Lt Bullitt gets a copy of the letter from PA Governor William Denny who states peace has a good chance.
Pennsylvania believes it has a chance winning over the Delaware and the Shawnee and other Indians allied to the French.
They think those Indians will agree to separate from the French.
So, could you, Virginia Regiment, hold back the Cherokee from attacking them?
From Douglas Southall Freeman's Young George Washington, Volume 2, Pages 303-304, published 1948, Charles Scribner's Sons:
The powerful Tedyuskung [Teedyuscung]
[The name is spelled in many ways. This is the form used in the Handbook of American Indians]
and other Delaware chiefs had proposed a treaty of peace to Governor Denny of Pennsylvania and had so informed the commanding officer at Fort Loudoun [the one in Winchester VA], with the request that he notify the Cherokees there.
A council of war, held a few days before Washington’s arrival,had concluded that this information would stir the jealousy of the Southern natives and would prompt them to assert suspiciously that England was coming to terms, with an enemy who would turn on them and destroy them.
This official silence might be wise,there was no assurance it would be effective.
The Cherokees might get the news and decamp in anger Nothing would be sure to hold them, Washington thought, except an early offensive, of which there seemed to be slight prospect.
But !!!
What are the Cherokee Here For?
Those Indians up north and west are the traditional enemies of the Cherokee.
The Cherokee have come up to Winchester for that reason.
They are looking to hunt them down and any Frenchmen with them.
This will achieve honor. Tearing off scalps, receiving presents and supplies to show and to provide for their people will achieve that honor.
And now none of that is going to happen.
None of that is going to happen because the White colonials have reached a peace with their traditional enemy?
Really?
Trust issues are already bad.
Presents weren't on time last year too. Same rigmarole. Same old delays. Same old excuses.
Now the Cherokee are going to think that peace with their enemy is why they have no presents?
No way is Bullitt going to tell them.
And that is what is ultimately decided by the top man in Virginia, President John Blair acting Governor since Lt Gov Dinwiddie departed 12 Jan 1758.
John Blair as president of the Virginia council wrote Gen. John Forbes on 9 April 1758:
“I have just advised with the Council on an Express from Winchester, with a Letter from Governor Denny, on a Proposal of Peace by some of the Western Chiefs, with a Council held at Winchester, it being Derected to the Chief Officer There, of which Council I inclose you a Copy with the Presidents Letter to Governor Denny in Answer thereto, which the Council here approve of, as thinking the offer from Such Traitorous People as they have been, not to be Listned to at this Time” (Scottish Record Office: Dalhousie Muniments).
But before that final decision is made, Lt Thomas Bullitt does his due diligence to determine what will be said or not be said.
War Council at Fort Loudoun
31 March 1758
It is time to consult.
Safety in Numbers. Get consensus.
He holds a war council at Fort Loudoun in Winchester VA to discuss.
He also alerts Colonel George Washington and President John Blair, acting Governor since Lt Gov Dinwiddie departed 12 Jan 1758. .
After that War Council
at Fort Loudoun, Winchester VA,
Thomas Bullitt writes Governor William Denny
on 31 March 1758.:
“The Number of Indians here is about four hundred, also considerable Parties on their way, and expected from the Southern Nations, Numbers uncertain, tho. imagined not less than one Thousand;
above Twelve Days since
Three Hundred of the Cherokees have been equipped and sent out against the Enemy, the last Accounts I had from them they had discover’d a Party of them, and intended, as soon as they had assembled a sufficient Body to attack them”
What?
Too late.
Bullitt has already outfitted the Cherokee 12 days ago and sent them out to attack.
Well.
There's just no good solution.
Tell the Cherokee
that Pennsylvania
is making friends with their enemy?
And chance the Cherokee still to come
only to see them leave in disgust?
Or send a messenger
to the Cherokee
who have already gone out
to raid?
What if the peace is really not achieved?
What if the French and Indians
continue to attack?
What if they will still need them on the upcoming Forbes Expedition?
And if they don't tell the Cherokee, will they find out on their own?
That's worse.
But that's the chance the colonials are going to take.
They're going to hope the Cherokee don't find out.
It's the same old story, same old song and dance.
Politicians and leaders simply do not trust the people to do the right thing.
And the people cannot trust their leaders
to be transparent.
It's the same old story.
It's the same old song and dance.
That's our story
and theirs.
Compiled, authored by Jim Moyer 3/25/20202, updated 3/26/2022, 1139am EST 3/27/2022
More?
Thee's a lot here.
Skip around.
Read bits and pieces.
More Detail, More Links, More notes
700 Cherokee?
By the way did you catch those numbers of Cherokee at Fort Loudoun?
Bullitt says there are 400 of them there now.
But he also says 300 of them have already left to go on raids.
Does that mean 100 or 400 are right now at Fort Loudoun?
Your thoughts on what Bullitt meant?
Here's what Lt Thomas Bullitt at Fort Loudoun Winchester VA, wrote to Pennsylvania Governor William Denny 31 March 1758:
“The Number of Indians here is about four hundred, also considerable Parties on their way, and expected from the Southern Nations, Numbers uncertain, tho. imagined not less than one Thousand;
above Twelve Days since
Three Hundred of the Cherokees have been equipped and sent out against the Enemy, the last Accounts I had from them they had discover’d a Party of them, and intended, as soon as they had assembled a sufficient Body to attack them”
Proof of Claims Made Above?
Below is the letter from Governor William Denny to Colonel George Washington.
In the Founders Footnotes to that letter is Lt Bullitt's response to Governor Denny's original letter.
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To George Washington
from William Denny,
25 March 1758
From William Denny Philadelphia 25 March 1758 Sir
Several Accounts have been brought here during the winter, as if there was a good disposition in the western Indians to return to their old Friends the English: and as there has been little or no Mischief done on the Fronteers of this & the Neighbouring Provinces of late, it is not unlikely but the Indians are changing every day in our favour.
We have as small Confirmation of the Truth of these Accounts by some Messages which have been delivered to me, a relation whereof you will find in the inclosed Paper.
Besides what Teedyuscung said in Publick from the Mouth of the Messengers, who came directly from the Ohio by the way of Diahogo, they expressly declare that since the Peace Belts sent by these Indians who were formerly our friends have been so kindly received by this Governmt they are sure, on their receiving this News, they shall be sent back immediately with an Account of their seperating from the French & coming to join our friendly Indians in Parties against them.1
A few days ago Letters arrivd here—from Winchester informing, that several Parties of Cherokees were come there & were preparing to go against the French & their Indians on the Ohio.
These Messengers were some how or other made acquainted with this, and they no sooner heard it than Teedyuscung wth them came in a formal manner to me with the following Address.
“Brother, You must have heard that the Cherokees are come down to go to War.
Now as several of our friends, who have joined with me, live near, and some among the French, it is necessary the messenger shoud be sent before to tell them to separate from the French that they may not be cut off with them.
Brother, I woud have you also dispatch a Messenger immediately to the Cherokees to inform them of what is done and to stop them.
For if any Mischief is done, it will not be said, the Cherokees did it, but that you have done it who hired & sent them; And this will undo all that we have done.
But when the Indian Nations are informed of the Peace we have made, then all those Indians will come and join the Cherokees, and be all friends with the English, and all together will go against the French.
“Being asked what sort of Message can be sent to the Cherokees that will not do harm. For shoud any Indians come down wth French men at their head as they have always done What then must be done?
“Teedyuscung replied I woud therefore have the Messenger sent as soon as possible to prevent any of the Indians joining with the French.[”]2
I have reason to believe that the Cherokees hate the Delawares and Shawonese and do not desire they shoud become our friends, but woud have them all destroyd, having long born them great Enmity. so that it is a nice Point how to communicate this news to them. without giving them disgust; and if any of the early Parties of the Cherokees take Miff and shoud return disgusted, they may turn back many other Parties who may be on their way to join His Majesties Forces.
As this ill consequence can I think be well avoided, if Prudence be observed in the Communication of this news, in compliance with Teedyuscungs Request I send this Express desiring that the whole matter may be related to the Cherokees and they be requested to have regard thereto in their Scouting Parties.3
I am persuaded there is a good disposition in several Indian Tribes, lately our bitter Enemies, towards the English and as it woud be a great misfortune that this shoud in any wise be discouragd or obstructed I hope you will find a way of engaging the Cherokees to attend seriously to the request made by Teedyuscung & these Indians.4
I beg the favour to know what Numbers of Cherokees are already come & how many more are expected, and in what manner they will dispose of them selves till the Rendezvous of the Kings Forces.5 I am Sir your most obedient humble Servant
William Denny
Founders Online Footnotes:
ALS, ViU: John Forbes Papers; copy, CSmH; copy (fragment), N: Sir William Johnson Papers; copy, P.R.O., C.O. 5/50, ff. 106–7. Two of the copies were attested by the clerk of the Pennsylvania council, Richard Peters. Gov. William Denny’s letter was directed “To Col: Washington or the Commanding Officer of the Virginia Forces at Winchester.” Capt. Lt. Thomas Bullitt, the commanding officer at Fort Loudoun in GW’s extended absence, responded to the letter on 31 Mar. 1758 (see n.4).
1. The “inclosed Paper” was a copy of the
minutes of the Pennsylvania council on 13 Mar. 1758
(Pa. Archives, Col. Rec., 8:29–32).
Teedyuscung, chief of the Delaware, arrived in Philadelphia on Saturday, 11 Mar., with “three Indian Deputies from Diahoga,” and Governor Denny, the speaker of the assembly, the men on the council, several members of the assembly, and many “Inhabitants of the City” met in the council chamber to hear Teedyuscung’s speech assuring the men of Philadelphia that he had won over the western Indians to the British cause.
2. The exchange of speeches between Teedyuscung and Denny
of which this is a part took place at a meeting of the council on 25 Mar. 1758.
See the council’s minutes, ibid., 50–57. The first section of Teedyuscung’s speech, ending with “they may not be cut off with them” appears only in the ALS.
3. According to the Pennsylvania council’s minutes:
“The Governor ordered the Secretary to prepare a Draught of a Letter to Collonel Washington, or the Officer Commanding the Forces in Virginia, agreeable to the Teedyuscung’s Request of yesterday, and it was agreed such a Letter should be sent by express” (ibid., 56).
The letter itself is preceded by the following: “On the Twenty-Sixth the Letter to Collonel Washington was signed and sent by express” (ibid.).
4. In GW’s absence Thomas Bullitt replied to this request from Fort Loudoun on 31 Mar. in the following terms:
“On Receipt of yours of the 25th Instant, I held a Council, Copy whereof I have inclosed, by which You will see the Reasons for not attempting a Negotiation of Peace between the Northern and Southern Indians, or without consulting higher Powers on the Occasion.
“I have dispatched an Express to Williamsburgh with your Letters, where Colo. Washington is, and can immediately have the Resolve of the Council, on the Affair; as to my attempting, in the Interim, such Negotiations as Teedyuscung proposes, by the Resolve of my Council, cannot justifiably do it, and for the reasons by them offered, also divers others I could enumerate,
You will see the Dangers at present, of such a thing, and provided we were, there could be little done as the Chiefs of their Nations are not yet arrived; neither have we here an Interpreter that can be understood, and our attempting to speak on the Subject to those Young Men sent from the Nations to revenge the Injuries done us, and them by our Enemies, might be understood, and be a means of calling in all those Parties we have sent out; this would be much to our Prejudice, as the Enemy are on our Frontiers committing the cruellest of Hostilities; I must also think such a Step, at this Juncture, would raise a Jealousy amongst them, as they are displeased at our not having proper Necessaries here to furnish them on their Arrival, which was their Expectation (and I believe promised them) I say in all Probability, such a Proposal to those Indians, at this Time might be attended with the Consequences of Confirming them in an Opinion, that we had made Peace with their Enemies; have no further Service for them, and in consequence thereof did not get the Supplies promised them, for Carrying on the War we engaged them in; for said Reasons must think it too nice an Affair at Present to attempt” (P.R.O., C.O. 5/50, ff. 109–10).
The council of war that advised Bullitt to this effect with regard to Teedyuscung’s proposal was held at Fort Loudoun on 30 Mar. and was attended by lieutenants John Campbell, Mordecai Buckner, Nathaniel Thompson, Charles Smith, and James Roy. A copy of the minutes of the council of war is in P.R.O., C.O. 5/50, ff. 111–12. Both the letter and the minutes are copies sent by Denny to Gen. James Abercromby.
John Blair as president of the Virginia council wrote Gen. John Forbes on 9 April 1758:
“I have just advised with the Council on an Express from Winchester, with a Letter from Governor Denny, on a Proposal of Peace by some of the Western Chiefs, with a Council held at Winchester, it being Derected to the Chief Officer There, of which Council I inclose you a Copy with the Presidents Letter to Governor Denny in Answer thereto, which the Council here approve of, as thinking the offer from Such Traitorous People as they have been, not to be Listned to at this Time” (Scottish Record Office: Dalhousie Muniments).
5. Thomas Bullitt wrote Denny on 31 Mar 1758.:
“The Number of Indians here is about four hundred, also considerable Parties on their way, and expected from the Southern Nations, Numbers uncertain, tho. imagined not less than one Thousand; above Twelve Days since Three Hundred of the Cherokees have been equipped and sent out against the Enemy, the last Accounts I had from them they had discover’d a Party of them, and intended, as soon as they had assembled a sufficient Body to attack them” (ibid., ff. 109–10).
Source:
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More on what Bullitt wrote to Denny:
From Founders Online Footnote to 2 April 1758 letter from GW to Blair:
3. Bullitt, who had been in command at Fort Loudoun since Capt. Robert Stewart’s departure, wrote this about Indian supplies in his letter to Gov. William Denny, 31 Mar. 1758:
“As the Success of our Arms in this Quarter, will, in a great Measure depend on the supporting and spiriting up our Friend Indians, have taken this opportunity to acquaint you of the present, and great Want here of some light Fire Arms suitable for Indians also Matchcoats there being no such thing here nor can conveniently be got, so that the late Parties, to the Amount of about one hundred Indians cannot be equipped, and appear very uneasy at our having not supplies to give them, especially the particulars mentioned”
(P.R.O., C.O., 5/50, ff. 109–10).
For Bullitt’s estimate of the numbers of Indians likely to come to Winchester, see William Denny to GW, 25 Mar. 1758, n.5.
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Notes for later use
There's a remark that the indians seldom come out without French officers. that means the impression that were not Frenchmen with the indian attacks may be more often than realized.
Thomas Bullitt
Question of Rank and whereabouts
Bullitt was at Fort Young 10 oct 1757 so named for Young who they thought would succeed Dinwiddie because Lord Loudoun had suggested Young, but he got wounded at Fort in NY of Last of the Mohicans fame.
Lord Loudoun had recommended Lt Col John Young as Dinwiddie's successor but Young was severely wounded at Fort William Henry in 9 Aug 1757. Young was so sure of the appointment that he even sent a chaise to Virginia in anticipation of his new office.
Captain Robert Stewart has left his command of Fort Loudoun. He wants to pursue a British officer commission to protect his future. He's seen others do so who had a lesser rank in this Virginia Regiment.
He asked Dinwiddie to be free to apply Nov 9, 1757.
He asked George Washington to be free to apply Nov 24, 1757.
At some point his request was grante
This leaves Lt. Thomas Bullitt in command of Fort Loudoun. at least March 1758
Lt Charles Smith is still foreman of completing the building of that fort.
As of 1 Dec 1757 Bullitt is not listed as Captain as he is referenced in Wikipedia without regard to time frame
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Other Notes
Governor William Denny of Pennsylvania
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Teedyuscung
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First posted on Facebook
Sunday 27 March 2022
We are covering 1758 in this year of 2022
Sunday Word 2
If there was an electrical fan in 31 March 1758 at Fort Loudoun Winchester VA, we're thinking something might really hit the fan. .
400 Cherokee are camping outside the fort NOW. .
300 were sent out 12 days ago to raid the enemy. .
The Pennsylvania Governor wants the VA Regiment to tell the Cherokee to stand down. Pennsylvania has a chance
to separate the French allied Indians from the French and have them stand down. .
But those Indians are the traditional sworn enemy of the Cherokee and the Cherokee haven't travelled all this way to Fort Loudoun Winchester VA for nothing. .
The Pennsylvania Governor wrote to GW who then forwarded it to the commanding officer of Fort Loudoun, Lt Bullitt, who was there and knew what the Cherokee were thinking. .
And there was no way he was going to tell the Cherokee that Pennsylvania was going to make peace with their enemy. .
The Cherokee will see betrayal in that. They'll also conclude that this is why the Presents and Supplies are not here yet and won't be. .
War Council Time. Not the Cherokee. Bullitt holds a War Council with his own men inside the Fort. Safety in numbers. Need a consensus to decide what to tell the Pennsylvania Governor and what to tell the Cherokee. Lt Thomas Bullitt also sends word of this burgeoning disaster (1940s parlance calls it FUBAR) . . to Colonel George Washington who's just finished recovering from Dysentery since Aug 1757 and who won't be on the road to Fort Loudoun until 2 April 1758.
And Lt Bullitt sends word to President Blair, acting Governor of Virginia. . What is decided? .
And by the way, you know that Lt Thomas Bullitt, the commanding officer of Fort Loudoun at the time? He's got quite a story. He's been with Washington since 1754. He went on to create The Homestead in Hot Springs VA. in 1766. Google that. .
https://jimmoyer1.wixsite.com/fortloudounva/single-post/warn-the-cherokee-at-fort-loudoun-don-t-attack
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